Is Catholic-Protestant Unity Possible? (with Matthew Levering)

This episode is a conversation with Dr. Matthew Levering of Mundelein Seminary. We discuss Catholic beliefs on topics such as how to agree and disagree with the Pope and Catholic doctrine (1:03), the latest discussions about Mary as Co-Redemptrix (23:19), the possibility of Catholic-Protestant unity (32:39), and more. Read his books.

We’re now on YouTube! Please subscribe and share. Find the channel at: youtube.com/@churchgrammar

Church Grammar is presented by the PhD and ThM programs at Gateway Seminary, which seek to blend the best of American and British programs by balancing a broad, robust education through seminars with close, one-on-one mentoring during the writing phase.

Producer: Cody Barnhart. Intro music: Purple Dinosaur by nobigdyl.

Brandon D. Smith is Chair of the Hobbs School of Theology & Ministry and Associate Professor of Theology & Early Christianity at Oklahoma Baptist University, a co-founder of the Center for Baptist Renewal, and writes things. You can follow him on Twitter at @brandon_d_smith.

Check out his recent books: The Trinity in the Book of Revelation (IVP Academic, 2022), The Biblical Trinity (Lexham, 2023), The Trinity in the Canon (B&H Academic, 2023), and Taught by God: Ancient Hermeneutics for the Modern Church (B&H Academic, 2024), and Beholding the Triune God (Crossway, 2024).

*** This podcast is designed to discuss all sorts of topics from various points of view. Therefore, guests’ views do not always reflect the views of the host, his church, or his institution.

Rhyne Putman on the Virgin Conception and Birth of Jesus

This episode is a conversation with Dr. Rhyne Putman of Williams Baptist University. We discuss the importance of Jesus’s genealogies and his role as the “virgin-born king” (3:48), the virgin birth in the Christian tradition (11:54), the biblical and theological importance of the virgin birth (14:31), Protestants and Mary (22:42), the importance of the virgin birth today (30:20), and more. Buy Rhyne’s books.

This episode is sponsored by Logos. Try the newest version for free for two months(!): www.logos.com/cg.

Church Grammar is presented by the PhD and ThM programs at Gateway Seminary, which seeks to blend the best of American and British programs by balancing a broad, robust education with close, one-on-one mentoring during the writing phase.

Check out Brandon’s recent books: The Trinity in the Book of Revelation (IVP Academic, 2022), The Biblical Trinity (Lexham, 2023), The Trinity in the Canon (B&H Academic, 2023), and Taught by God: Ancient Hermeneutics for the Modern Church (B&H Academic, 2024).

You can also order his latest, Beholding the Triune God, written with Matthew Emerson.

Producer: Ryan Modisette. Intro music: Purple Dinosaur by nobigdyl.

Brandon D. Smith is Chair of the Hobbs School of Theology & Ministry and Associate Professor of Theology & Early Christianity at Oklahoma Baptist University, a co-founder of the Center for Baptist Renewal, and writes things. You can follow him on Twitter at @brandon_d_smith.

*** This podcast is designed to discuss all sorts of topics from various points of view. Therefore, guests’ views do not always reflect the views of the host, his church, or his institution.

Daniel Treier on Christology and Scripture

This episode is a conversation with Dr. Daniel Treier of Wheaton College. We discuss Christology in Scripture and the Christian Tradition (2:20), Christology and communion with God (11:18), union with Christ and adoption (21:43), the incarnation and its implications (24:45), Christ and his relationship to the Holy Spirit (31:34), the relationship between Christ’s two natures (37:57), Christ and catholicity in the church (45:26), and more. Buy Dan’s books.

Check out Brandon’s recent books: The Trinity in the Book of Revelation (IVP Academic, 2022), The Biblical Trinity (Lexham, 2023), and The Trinity in the Canon (B&H Academic, 2023).

Church Grammar is presented by the Christian Standard Bible. Get 40% off on up to 3 full price CSB Bibles at LifeWay.com with promo code CGCSB.

Producer: Ryan Modisette. Intro music: Purple Dinosaur by nobigdyl.

Brandon D. Smith is Chair of the Hobbs School of Theology & Ministry and Associate Professor of Theology & Early Christianity at Oklahoma Baptist University, a co-founder of the Center for Baptist Renewal, and writes things. You can follow him on Twitter at @brandon_d_smith.

*** This podcast is designed to discuss all sorts of topics from various points of view. Therefore, guests’ views do not always reflect the views of the host, his church, or his institution.

Thoughts on “The Future of Protestantism”

On Tuesday night I attended a conversation on “The Future of Protestantism,” which consisted of 10-15 minute presentations from Peter Leithart, Fred Sanders, and Carl Trueman, a discussion between the three presenters moderated by Peter Escalante, and Q&A from the audience. Biola University and their Torrey Honors Institute added to their track record from the first LA Theology Conference as superb hosts, and it was nice to see Rusty Reno of First Things (also a sponsor of the event) attend and briefly interact with the presenters at the end.

Some thoughts:

  1. I thoroughly enjoy reading Peter Leithart, namely because he is one of the best typological and intertextual readers of Scripture of which I’m aware. I also resonated with much of what he said regarding Protestantism, both in his original article at First Things and in his presentation and response last night.  Namely, I appreciated so much his calls to abandon the tribalism endemic to much of Western Christianity, and especially American Christianity, and to return liturgically, doctrinally, and historically to a more robust faith. I don’t want to pass over these things quickly, because they are important calls that I think the church needs to hear. But I think there are a number of issues with his proposal which were only exacerbated and made clearer as the night progressed, and I sensed that Sanders and Trueman wanted the same things as Leithart but had a much more precise vision for it.
  2. First, I’m worried as a Baptist where I fit into Leithart’s vision. The only comment he made about Baptists was a dismissive one in which he called us to let go of a primary distinctive (congregationalism). The larger problem here is that, in Leithart’s proposal and especially in his further comments last night, he appears to be the one who decides which ecclesial bodies need to give up which doctrinal distinctives in order to overcome tribalism. Although he eschewed a top down approach to ecumenism, one can’t help but wonder if that’s inherent to his proposal.
  3. Second, it seems to me that Leithart’s proposal relies heavily on an unsupported typological reading of Western history. It’s one thing to say that God reunited Judah and Israel in Christ, and another to say that we should therefore expect God to reunite Protestants and Catholics. I’m not comfortable with taking what I see as a legitimate typological pattern in Scripture and then, without any support other than our own reading of subsequent church history and our current situation, apply that reading to a prophetic call to action.
  4. Third, and related, Leithart mentioned his “eschatological vision” a number of times. He never said it explicitly, but it seems obvious to me that his goal is one born partly out of his postmillennialism. If one is a postmillennialist, then I suppose Leithart’s expectations are warranted. But I’m not convinced that the NT gives us much warrant for that type of eschatological outlook, especially given Jesus’ warnings at the end of each gospel about people falling away, Paul’s continued fight against false teachers, and the cyclical nature of the structure of Revelation. There is an already/not yet tension inherent to the NT’s structure, and Leithart only seems to pass over that tension and focus too heavily on the “already”.
  5. Fourth, and finally, I don’t see how Leithart’s vision takes into account the very clear instructions of at least Paul and John to cast out those who depart from sound doctrine. In other words, there is a warrant for church discipline not only on the basis of behavior but also on the basis of belief. I’m thinking specifically of Galatians 1, where Paul anathematizes those who preach a soteriology contrary to Scripture; 1 Timothy 1, where Paul says that Hymenaeus and Alexander have been handed over to Satan in order to be taught “not to blaspheme”; and 1 John 4, where John instructs the church to discern the spirits primarily through judging their beliefs about the incarnation. Leithart, in my opinion, did not take this into consideration at all in his proposal. He did state a number of times that we should be honest about our doctrinal differences and attempt to convince one another, but, in the case of both the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches, there are fundamental soteriological doctrinal differences that I think warrant consideration of the verses listed above.

Sanders and Trueman ably brought up many of these critiques, although I’m not sure I heard much on eschatology or doctrinal discipline. Nevertheless I was convinced that they possessed a more rigorous and precise understanding of how to articulate and implement many of the most important aspects of Leithart’s vision without ignoring some of its evident problems. In the end I’m grateful that these three men had the courage to tackle this difficult topic and to have been able to attend in person. My hope is that the conversation continues well into the future.